Summary: this file is a thread from the Fido computer network UFO
Echo, early 1989, about Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
It has long been rumored that a UFO was stored there at some time.
This file consists of messages, edited for relevance, that say that
the UFO is no longer there, if it ever was.
There is also a description of another wreck that was brought in
to the Great Lakes Naval Base. Also, another one collected by the
Army and stored temporarily in a firehouse.
File length just over four typed pages.
An additional source for this subject is “The Roswell Incident”
by Bill Moore and Charles Berlitz.
====
From: John Frey To: Steven Northover 15-Jan-89
I know that Aquarius exists. A close relative of mine was
stationed at Great Lakes Naval Base when they brought in under VERY
HEAVY security a crashed UFO that was supposedly shot down by a
aircraft carrier back in the early ’50s.
Also I have another relative that worked at Wright Patterson who
said “I’ve seen some strange business that I can’t talk about”, when
I asked about the rumors the UFO’s stored there.
* Origin: Astral Board (1:129/39.0) 1(412)8246566
====
From: John Frey To:Kevin Colquitt 29-Jan-89
My aunt used to work at Wright-Pat. but they live far away in
Indiana now so I don’t get to talk to her as much as I would like.
Anyway she heard many stories about strange experiments being carried
out by scientists there.
* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
====
From: John Frey To: Joe Holland 22-Jan-89
Well,I don’t know any major details about it other than what I
told except that it was structually damaged badly and they picked up
alot of wreckage. I don’t know why they shot it or if there were any
bodies but I do know that my relative was asigned to moving some of
the material into a building late at night under TIGHT security. They
made him go through a metal detector before he left.
* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
====
From: Dick Copits To: John Frey 20-Jan-89
I lived in Dayton and worked at Wright-Pat in fairborn for years
and although there were lots of rumors about UFO’s, no one ever saw
anything dealing with them. I have been in EVERY building and hangar
on that base, and believe me, there ain’t no such animal. You now
have an authoratative source that says - wherever they is, they
ain’t at Wright-Pat.!!!
* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
====
From: John Frey To:Dick Copits 23-Jan-89
Hangar 18 exists! Notice I did not say there was a UFO in it. It
would be stupid to keep it in the same place long.
A UFO that crashed in PA was taken by a lot of people from the
Army back in the 50’s. It was in the newspaper and a local reporter
researched it and found that it was taken by a Cleveland, OH group.
The TV reporter was unable to find any members of the group (since it
broke up in the late ’50s) but did find a eyewitness of the recovery
operation that was a volunteer fireman. All the wreckage was hauled
from the crash site to the firehouse and later moved out with the
army. The reporter is very credible and so is the eyewitness.
* Origin: Astral Board * Home of UFO echo * (1:129/39.0)
====
From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 1/25/89
On what date did you first get into Hanger 18? Recently, or some
long time ago? Here below, for comparison, are three messages sent in
to Paranet Alpha AZ last April. After posting these, George Ray never
came on again with the follow up he was expecting to get.
Also, I have documentation that Senator Goldwater was denied
access to Hanger 18. (This item is corrected further on in this
file). And you got in easily, with no instructions about secrecy?
———————————————————————
Paranet messages:
Msg: #7816 01-APR-88 From: George Ray To: Jim Delton
Jim why dont you go to Wright-Pat. AFB in ILL. (see later
correction) and see if you can get inside of the large black hanger
at the back of the base, after you have seen the inside of it then
come tell me the A.F. doesn’t believe in UFOs.
====
Msg: #7837 01-APR-88 From: George Ray To: Nick Ianuzzi
The entire time that I was in the Air Force (over 12 years) I
only knew one person who had actually been inside that structure.
That was because he worked there. It seems that the government did
not like the job that the Security Police (AF COPS) were doing so the
control of this hanger and surrounding buildings was placed into the
hands of the N.S.A. and the Federal Police Agency (supposedly a
branch of the U.S. Marshall’s Office, Under the Dept. of Justice).
Anyway prior to the security exchange this person had to do an
inventory. He said that the items that were in those buildings
could not be beleived. He told me some of what he had seen but the
time I just blew it off. This was almost ten years ago, I will try
to get hold of him this weekend to see if he will restate for me
just what he saw and I will give you a full report when I get it
onto a disk and upload it. Hopefully that should be done by Wed at
the outside.
====
Msg: #7839 01-APR-88 From: George Ray To: Jim Delton
Jim, I left an earlier message in regards to this. But I can tell
you this while stationed at an Alert Site in Alaska, we scrambled
more than once on objects that were not aircraft, the pilots would
not tell us what they saw, yet after every time this happened all
aircrews involved were immediately rotated back to the home station.
Even when they would wind up back out there with us they would not
tell us what they had seen. I know that this happened four times
while I was stationed there and I could not tell you how many times
total that it has happened. I just have to accept that they saw
something that was not of standard aircraft design and until they are
allowed to come forward with eye-witness reports, it will continue
to be a rumor generating mill.
(End Paranet messages of April 1, 1988. Fido thread resumes here)
———————————————————————
From: Dick Copits To: Joe Holland 30-Jan-89
Joe - First, and I think symptomatic of the messages - Wright
Patterson AFB is NOT in Ill!!! It’s in Fairborne Ohio, a short
distance from Dayton. It’s also the home of the Air Force Logistics
Center, a SAC refueling wing and the home of the analysis section for
spacecraft observation photos.
Hangar 18 is very visible from Harshman road, generally has (and
always had) the doors open so that you can see in it with a good pair
of binoculars, and is painted (at least since 1946) grey! When you go
to the Air Force Museum, look past the xb-70 and there it is. No
guards, No searchlights, No barbed wire, and in fact if you come in
from the third street gate you can almost drive right up to it. Joe -
this is a MYSTIQUE that has been propagated by people such as your
friend who maybe even visited WP (even though it’s never been in
Ill…).
In fact, take a weekend and fly into Dayton and drive over there
and see for yourself. It’s an open base, and unless you screw around
the SAC planes you can pretty much move around and take pictures at
will. How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?
During the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the
last 29 years, and knows everyone who is anyone on the base. Believe
me, there’s no UFO there, no parts there, and nothing else. Comments?
* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
====
From: Dick Copits To: Joe Holland 30-Jan-89
Joe - why do you think those messages have the dates they do?
April 1 !!!
* Origin: (c)1988 Rogers & Blake (508)373-2204 (1:324/120)
====
From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 2/3/89
Now, if we can take this apart somewhat, maybe we can study the
anatomy of a myth, or else find out why this information is
contradictory. Well, OK, I am accepting your description that hanger
18 is accessible.
>How long ago am I talking about? Last year. When was I there?
During the 60-70 era. My brother is still working there, has for the
last 29 years<
The remaining question then would be the dates. Its a long time,
42 years, back to 1947 when the UFO crashed in New Mexico. There
might also be a question about which building it is.
The Goldwater letter, which I will post separately, is dated
1979, and refers to an earlier time. Someone should find out from
him, how much earlier. But what I missed before is that the letter
does not say hanger 18, but rather “a facility at Wright Patterson”.
This letter appears on page 41 of the Nov 88 issue of UFO Universe.
But an introduction on page 3 has already assumed that this is
Hanger 18. Also in this introduction, Senator Goldwater is quoted in
another quotation, but this again does not say Hanger 18, but “in the
building where the information is stored”. Note the word is not “the
UFO” but “the information”. The magazine appears not to have strictly
conformed in the text, to the evidence that it presented.
The April 1 letter from George Ray refers to a time “almost ten
years” earlier. This is in conflict with what I assume you said in
your message, quoted above, about 29 years. Since you are on the
scene, I give my credence to you. George Ray was quoting second
hand, and might have never been to Wright-Patterson, or so it might
seem from having gotten the location wrong.
I noticed the April 1st date, and regarded it with suspicion,
when I first re-ran the message into Paranet last year. But I missed
the wrong location of Wright-Patterson, so I’m glad I chose to
repeat all three messages this time, instead of just one.
*Source: Third World, Chatsworth CA 1(818)7009591
====
From Joe Holland to All 2/3/89
Here is one of the letters from Senator Barry Goldwater about
Wright-Patterson:
——————————————————————–
United States Senate
Commitee on Commerce, Science,
and Transportation
Washington DC 20510

April 11, 1979

Mr. Lee M Graham
526 West Maple
Monrovia, California 91016

Dear Mr. Graham:

It is true I was denied access to a faclity at
Wright-Patterson. Because I never got in, I can’t
tell you what was inside. We both know about the
rumors.

Apart from that, let me make my position clear: I
do not beleive that we are the only planet, and of
some two billion that exist, that has life on it. I
have never seen what I would call a UFO, but I have
intelligent friends who have, so I can sort of argue
either way.

Sincerely,
(Signature)
Barry Goldwater.
—————————
Source: UFO Universe (magazine) Nov 88 page 41
See also page 3.
351 W. 54th ST. NY, NY 10012.
====
From Joe Holland to Dick Copits 2/3/89
Wright Patterson is plainly marked on my AAA Road Atlas as on
the east side of Dayton, Ohio. Everything should be so easy to
check! I had meant to look it up, but it never occured to me someone
would miss on a thing like that. Well, I’m the one who goes around
reminding people that things may be easier to check than you think,
and trying to get people to do it.
If that story is true about the crashed disk, then the disk went
somewhere. Why they would move it a long distance would be a
question, although there could be a number of reasons. If the
expertise for rebuilding craft existed back then at Wright-Patterson,
as it does now, then that’s a possible answer. Also, you say they
look at the space photos there.
However, it would have soon become evident, from your
description, that Wright-Patterson was not a highest security area,
so it would have been reasonable to move it.
——————-
File prepared by Joe Holland, 2/23/89.

[The following is a teletype message from the Dallas, TX, FBI office to
the Cincinati, OH, FBI office regarding the event at Roswell. The "xx"
means it was scratched out, "??" means I couldn't read it. The
following material is from: _The Roswell Report: A Historical
Perspective_, George M. Eberhart editor, 1991 the J. Allen Hynek Center
for UFO Studies. ISBN 0-929343-59-X.]

—————————————————————————–

FBI DALLAS 7-8-47 6-17 PM

DIRECTOR AND SAC, CINCINNATI URGENT

FLYING DISC, INFORMATION CONCERNING. MAJOR CURTAN, HEADQUARTERS

EIGHTH Air Force, TELEPHONICALLY ADVISED THIS OFFICE THAT AN OBJECT

PURPORTING TO BE A FLYING DISC WAS RE COVERED NEAR Roswell, NEW

MEXICO, THIS DATE. THE DISC IS HEXAGONAL IN SHAPE AND WAS SUSPENDED

FROM A BALLON BY A CABLE, WHICH BALLON WAS APPROXIMATELY TWENTY

FEET IN DIAMETER. MAJOR CURTAN FURTHER ADVISED THAT THE OBJECT FOUND

RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR

REFLECTOR, BUT THAT TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION BETWEEN THEIR OFFICE

AND WRIGHT FIELD HAD NOT xxxxxxxxxx BORNE OUT THIS BELIEF. DISC AND

BALLOON BEING TRANSPORTED TO WRIGHT FIELD BY SPECIAL PLANE FOR EXAMIN

INFORMATION PROVIDED THIS OFFICE BECAUSE OF NATIONAL INTEREST IN CASE

xxxx AND FACT THAT NATIONAL BROADCASTING COMPANY, ASSOCIATED PRESS, A

OTHERS ATTEMPTING TO BREAK STORY OF LOCATION OF DISC TODAY. MAJOR

CURTAN ADVISED WOULD REQUEST WRIGHT FIELD TO ADVISE CINCINNATI

OFFICE RESULTS OF EXAMINATION. NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION BEING

CONDUCTED.

WYLY

END

CXXXX ACK IN ORDER

WA ?? FBI CI MJW

BPI HS

S-32 PM O

O-22 PM OM FBI WASH DC VH

It has, unfortunately, been over two months since our last issue of
“Smear”, and in that period of time MUCH has happened regarding the now-
famous “Majestic-12″ or “MJ-12″ documents released by Bill Moore and friends
earlier this year.

Before we move on to a summary of new information, let us mention some-
thing we neglected to state in our earlier ravings: Apparently long deceased
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter was the most important member of this group
of twelve, because his name comes first on the list (he is referred to as “MJ-
1″) and because he was allegedly the briefing officer who presented this
startling information to president-elect Dwight Eisenhower on or about Nov.
18th, 1952. Hillenkoetter, after retirement from his position as first dir-
ector of the CIA, became a member of the board of directors of NICAP, circa
1957. Can anyone seriously believe he would have dared to OPENLY join a pro-
UFO organization if he had the KNOWLEDGE of UFO reality that the “MJ-12″
briefing document leads us to assume???

We have already published our exclusive information from Dr. Ernest
Taves, a very close friend of Dr. Donald Menzel, who apparently was “MJ-10″.
Taves, like others who knew Menzel well, cannot believe that the long-de-
ceased former director of Harvard Observatory could have had this above-men-
tioned knowledge of UFO reality and still have written 3 anti-saucer books,
and still have debunked UFOs emotionally at every opportunity. Yet Moore and
Friedman see nothing amiss here, and have in fact written long, detailed re-
buttals re the “Menzel Connection” and all other negative evidence that has
been brought up in regard to “MJ-12″. They do seem to believe what they are
saying!

CUFOS, in an editorial by Jerry Clark in the May-June issue of the “In-
ternational UFO Reporter”, and in a more recent press release, seems general-
ly supportive of “MJ-12″, and claims that the “verdict is still open.”

MUFON has expressed various opinions, swaying pro and con. They used our
Taves material in a recent issue of their Journal, and in the August issue of
their Newsletter, edited by MUFON’s Massachusetts director James Melesciuc,
they state: “The results of the MJ-12 circus created by Moore, Shandera and
Friedman could be detrimental to the future of document research. The hunger
for publicity or for financial gain by any type of self-styled expert can be
as damaging to the subject as the crackpots and fanatics. Moore and Friedman,
of all people, should realize that by promoting evidence loaded with loop-
holes, will cause people to question the quality of their research and would
be disastrous to their reputations….”

Needless to say, CSICOP, as personified by Phil Klass, issued a totally
negative press release, based on insufficient information, in our opinion.
Much more interesting than the CSICOP release is the September issue of “Just
Cause”, published by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry Greenwood. In an article en-
titled “The MJ-12 Fiasco,” they give a vast amount of detailed negative data
that no student of this matter should overlook. (Address: P. O. Box 218,
Coventry, CT., 16238). To this Bill Moore’s only comment (to us, by phone)
is: “Sour Grapes.”

“Just Cause” introduces into the fray the name of a present or former
intelligence officer named Richard Doty, assigned to Kirtland Air Force Base,
New Mexico. The magazine alleges that Doty may very likely be Moore’s source.
Alas, when we said in our last “Smear” that “we believe we have the name of
the probably perpetrator”, it was Doty to whom we were referring. We have
thus been “scooped”, but never mind: Moore admits knowing Doty, but denies
that Doty is his source. So the mystery deepens!

Phil Klass, relying largely on information from British researcher Chris-
topher Allan, has made a big deal out of the fact that the “MJ-12″ briefing
paper uses an unusual format in writing the dates, which happens to be ex-
actly the same unusual format that Bill Moore uses in writing HIS dates. Our
comment is: Whereas the notorious Straith Letter Hoax of 1957 DID reflect
Gray Barkers’ stylistic peculiarities, since it was written late one drunken
night with no forethought, Moore would have to be remarkably stupid or insane
to make such a naive mistake. If the dating similarity means anything, it
more likely means that the REAL hoaxter was trying deliberately to frame
Moore!

So, to get to the point: It appears that most thoughtful Ufologists be-
lieve “MJ-12″ is possibly or probably a hoax, and some Ufologists, plus all
of the debunkers, believe that Moore & Co. are behind it. Our position is
that, although “MJ-12″ is a hoax in all probability, Moore’s group is NOT
behind it. On to our exclusive information:

Your humble “Smear” editor spent large parts of three days with Moore
and Shandera recently (Sept. 23-25), in Burbank, California, discussing “MJ-
12″ and related topics. We were left with the strong impression that they
are, if anything VICTIMS of a complex sophisticated hoax that has engulfed
them for several years - a DISINFORMATION campaign of some sort, for what
purpose we do not know.

Ufologists don’t seem to realize that Moore has been involved since 1980
in the receipt of supposed “inside” government information from first one in-
formant, and eventually several, on a more or less continuing basis. Like
“Deep Throat” in the Watergate Scandal, these informants do not always hand
him answers, but they tell him where to look. As a result, Moore has given up
his literary career, which looked very promising after the publication of
“The Roswell Incident” (with Charles Berlitz) in 1980, and has devoted all of
his spare time to research related to these ufological matters. He earns a
bare living by selling UFO books and his own tracts by mail order.

Shandera joined Moore in the quest in 1982. He too has largely given up
his career, which was in film and broadcasting. His financial situation is
better than Moore’s however, as his wife has a very good job in the TV in-
dustry.

Friedman is, it seems, a more passive partner, in that he is merely kept
informed of information received by the other two. He continues to work at a
normal science-related job in his home town in Canada.

Another thing that Ufologists don’t seem to realize is that Moore’s evi-
dence consists of a great deal more than what he has released so far. (Appar-
ently his sources tell him what he can release, and were he to disobey, he
would blow the whole ongoing relationship.) There are other documents, includ-
ing one he claims was given to him for exactly 20 minutes to do what he want-
ed with, and then was taken back. He photographed it and read it into a tape
recorder, in the presence of the agent who lent it to him.

There are also several videotapes. We were allowed to see one 20-minute
tape and most of another. These consist of a supposed agent talking in a tot-
ally disguised voice, answering a list of questions from a supposed newsman.
The agent is disguised, and the newsman has his back to the camera. The prov-
en identities of these two are known to Moore and Shandera, they say. No one
was present at the tapings except these two, plus Moore, Shandera, and the
producer.

The contents of the tapes are Way Out - literally and figuratively. We
have been asked not to print anything about the contents, so we will merely
comment that we find the material literally incredible without further evi-
dence to back it up. Moore & Co. apparently have such evidence and expect to
get more.

The scenario is that by the end of this year, Moore’s informants will
either come forth with more information and public disclosures, or else Moore
will give up on his informants and go public, himself, with all the inform-
ation he has obtained so far. In either case, we are in for some interesting
times!

There is much more to all this, but Space prevents us from rambling fur-
ther in this issue. Re our continuing “MJ-12″ quest: Our sincere thanks to,
among others, Tommy Roy Blann (who now says he has suddenly withdrawn from
the UFO field!); to Jim Speiser of ParaNet; to Antonio Huneeus for material
on the deeply mysterious “Humo Papers” which he has not yet sent (See Next
Issue!); and to the alleged Space People for making all this madness pos-
sible.

Also a tip of the “Smear” sombrero to the various zines that have seen
fit to reprint or condense some of our “MJ-12″ material in earlier issues:
“California UFO”; “Would You Believe?”; “The MUFON Journal”; and (ugh!)
“Skeptical Inquirer”.

N E W S F L A S H !
GIANT BOX-SHAPED UFO CROSSES SOUTHERN CALIFORNIAN SKIES
NEAR EDWARDS AFB

(UFO Reporting Center, March 12, 1988.) A pilot who was
driving 40 miles east of Edwards Air Force Base in California
today saw a huge box-shaped object glowing brilliant white in the
afternoon sky. He called the FAA ARTCC at 2:00 p.m. and was told
they had had it on their radar. It had gone across their radar
screens in just a single sweep. It made an instantaneous 90
degree turn while the witness was watching it. He estimated it
was flying at 30,000 feet and was bigger than a 747. Contact
Robert Gribble of the National UFO Reporting Center for more
information, 206-722-3000.

–Donald A. Johnson, Ph.D.
MUFON Washington State Director
s
something different than missles and aircraft.

Moreover, the term “UFO,” as used in these regulations,
is given very